Don’t overlook the need to think about the future, innovation, and potential threats. Yet too many CEOs are overscheduled. I get asked all the time. “How to create more white space to think?” As leaders, we have to learn the balance of everyday work and thinking about the vision we are creating. Our guest is Matt Kueker, CEO of Kenway Consulting. Kenway Consulting was #4495 on the 2019 Inc 5000 list. Matt begins by sharing his top strategy for optimizing his time, which is the power to say NO. In part two, Gene coaches Matt on creating time to think. We remove many of his limiting beliefs. You will discover how to create more white space better inside this episode.
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Matt Kueker: The Transcript
Target Audience: Matt Kueker is the CEO of Kenway Consulting. A technology professional with 24 years of exceptional performance history in the development and management of information systems and business processes.
Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.
Take a hard look in the mirror, and practice self-awareness. And I think it’s awareness of oneself as well as your organization. And I say what I learned, or I realized is I’m both a rescuer and a pleaser. And our organization is highly collaborative in me. So in moving into that new role, that combination was really tough for us. So in looking inwardly, the self awareness aspect of it was I realized I could not complete everything coming at me and everything I needed to do would be more important. So it was about to do a better job planning my week, planning each day within the week, blocking out time for the critical problem quadrant two activities that need to get done.
Welcome to Growth Think Tank. This is the one and only place where you will get insight from the founders and the CEOs, the fastest growing privately held companies. I am the host, my name is Gene Hammett I hope leaders and their teams navigate the defining moments of their growth, are you ready to grow?
Gene Hammett [1:06]
You have to manage your time with attention. Being the CEO of fast growth company or any company requires that you be involved in a lot of the different teams, the strategies and have the vision to direct the team where needed, you also have to be the leader that can connect with them one on one, or maybe in small teams to give them the feedback they need the confidence so that they can own their projects. Today, we’re going to be looking at optimizing your time with the CEO of Kenway Consulting is Matt Kueker, Matt shares with us the one strategy that he’s done, actually those into, but you really will probably get some insight around this because having the right metrics to measure the team and measure the company on is something that can align people together, we talk about why that’s important.
Gene Hammett [1:51]
Inside today’s episode, we also look at the value of saying no and about not everything has equal importance. Then we dive in and part two, to look at what’s really going on inside of Matt schedule, what he’s working on. He’s working on a few different things. But one of the things that we actually came up with was what was missing in his schedule his day to day that would allow him to be more effective in the meetings and actually cancel some of those meetings if they weren’t appropriate for him, or he wasn’t prepared to be there. So all of that inside today’s episode with Matt Kueker, CEO of Kenway Consulting.
Gene Hammett [2:27]
Matt Kueker [2:28]
How are you, Gene? It’s good to see you again.
Gene Hammett [2:31]
I am excited to have you here I am. This series on optimize your time is something I’m really, really excited about and appreciate you being a part of it. Before we dive into this, you know talking about time and what you’re doing to to optimize it. I’d love you to tell us about Kenway Consulting.
Matt Kueker [2:49]
Sure, Kenway Consulting is a high growth management technology consulting company operations. Based in Chicago, we have an office in Scottsdale, Arizona as well. We serve enterprise clients and as molting industries, you can think of us as a higher value middle-market alternative to Bankside consulting, large technology transformations, a lot of work in building data warehouses, hubs movement of data, helping our clients make better decisions and optimize their businesses.
Gene Hammett [3:19]
Well, that means you’ve got to be on the cutting edge of not only technology, but also how do you lead people? Is that fair?
Matt Kueker [3:27]
Oh, yes, absolutely. I mean, I can say all of our projects, well, most of the conversation may revolve around what technology are you going to use and how you implement it? No technology will work unless you’ve got the people and processes also aligned?
Gene Hammett [3:42]
Well, Matt, we came here because you’re the CEO of Kenway Consulting, you’ve grown fast over the years. And as with that, it comes a lot of pressure, a lot of other things that you’re pulled into. But optimizing your time is just such an important thing. So before we get into your one strategy, tell us about your time before that one strategy kind of hit like what were you feeling before you put that into place?
Matt Kueker [4:06]
Sure, I would say so I became It was really a multi-year journey over our growth. Beginning in 2018, I was promoted to managing director still had our founder was CEO. So I had quite a bit I can lean on him. And you know, there’s a division of labor responsibilities. I had grown, you know, like most consultants, I think, through delivery, and then I stood up our first business development and marketing organization. So when I moved into managing director, and then also CEO, but I would say because I had about a year and a half or two years in that MD position, that transition to CEO was actually easier for me. I was quite overwhelmed. Because while I was super busy before, I now had such more breadth of my areas of accountability and responsibility, and many of them were new As I said, I grew up in delivery, kind of self taught sales and business development. But I had never been exposed to HR, which is a critically important aspect of our business, less so in the finance and accounting space as well. So I had all of these new areas flying at me all at once, I felt overwhelmed. And I would say, you know, after a couple months in the job, feeling incredibly busy, but less impactful. And I knew I needed to make some changes.
Gene Hammett [5:31]
So that’s the setup to this. And I’ve been asking the same question to everyone. What is the one strategy that’s made the most impact in optimizing your time as a CEO?
Matt Kueker [5:42]
Well, I’ll cheat a bit and say, two, I think the first thing I would advise everyone is to take a hard look in the mirror, and practice self awareness. And I think it’s awareness of oneself as well as your organization. And I’d say what I learned, or I realized is I’m both a rescuer and a pleaser. And our organization is highly collaborative, and meaning intensive. So in moving into that new role, that combination is really tough for me. So in looking inwardly, the self awareness aspect of it was I realized I could not treat everything coming at me and everything I needed to do with equal importance. So it was about doing a better job of planning my week, planning each day within the week, blocking out time, for those critical to steal from Steven Covey quadrant two activities that need to get done. And then having whitespace to deal with inevitably, you know, the things that will come up from an organizational perspective, you know, we had to implement also just some more organizational maturity.
Matt Kueker [6:49]
We furthered our corporate planning process, we got greater alignment within our management team. And I think what that allowed us to do is I could lead and they quite frankly, can lead with more intent, and not be as involved in the day to day of every part of our business that’s happening, move more things, to 360 degree scorecards, we’ve got 12 core KPIs much more through internal status reporting, as opposed to getting the other meeting about every decision that needs to be made about every project going on.
Gene Hammett [7:19]
Let me pause right there for a second. I see a lot of companies that are meeting heavy, and they want to create something else, scorecards. okrs, you talked, you mentioned a few things that you’ve done there with KPIs. When you guys decided to do that, my, when I work with clients, it’s it’s really iterative. Like if they don’t get it right the first time, it’s like, Okay, well, this is we need something better here. Is that kind of the process you guys went through?
Matt Kueker [7:48]
Absolutely. You know, I worked with our head of operations. And I couldn’t have said it better. It’s quite frankly, been a three-year journey, I would say, it never ends. But I feel like from the pieces that I knew were on a project plan, so to speak, in 2018, I feel like we’ll just get the end of those. This year, with our annual planning process, we’re wrapping up right now for next year. And that final leg of the marathon is actually not only achieving alignment amongst our leadership team and their individual organizations, but we’re going to get that alignment, across and through all employees this year.
Gene Hammett [8:27]
So when you at the end of the day, if you’re pulled to a lot of meetings, having this snapshot of the KPIs and whatever else you’re measuring across these different teams, has that really reduced your need for meetings.
Matt Kueker [8:42]
Maybe KPIs have, you know, to an extent, because the big thing they do is we are all in alignment on what makes our business. Right, if we are doing well and needs 13 key areas, we know are more more specifically where we’re not we know that’s where we need to focus. And I think the important thing is when you get that alignment, not only most leadership, but with employees, we can better funnel scarce resources to the areas that need them. So I would like to say in the past, internally speaking, not not for our clients, but for our internal projects. Over the course of the year, we might do 28 things very average. What we needed to get to was let’s do the eight most important things incredibly well. And that’s where where we’ve been striving I think we’re getting very close.
Gene Hammett [9:34]
Now, I know we talked a few weeks ago, Matt, you talked about the the one strategy that made the biggest difference for you is learning to say No, we haven’t covered that today. So we’ll make sure we put a little bit of a time on that. As a CEO. I know it’s hard to say no to to all the things you’re you need to be into or people think you need to be into. So tell us exactly what saying no means do you.
Matt Kueker [9:58]
I understand that not everything is of equal importance in the challenge I had, you know, like I said, me personally, I’m a rescuer and a pleaser. So I felt as though I might be offending certain people in the company when they invited me to something, and I’m not there. And, you know, just learned the game. The first piece was easy, because organizationally, we already had great people. So once we had that alignment across our management team, I have no problem, you know, delegating and being quite clear, within the let’s lead with a tech lead with objectives, I’m competent, you understand my intent and content, you understand the objectives. Let’s set a cadence where you keep me in the loop appropriately.
Matt Kueker [10:43]
From that point forward as employees, you know, not direct reports would invite me to certain things, and simply explain that I’m not saying no, but fill in name of leadership, the member there on this, and that’s your point of contact. And we’re going to be meeting once a month or every six weeks or quarterly to make sure I stay appropriately involved. I think I had a much harder part, not the delegation. But then the actual part of saying no is more of a human thing for me than a business. I didn’t want any employee to think that I wasn’t valuing their initiative or their ideas. as much.
Gene Hammett [11:19]
I know, he didn’t say that. So I want to make sure I’m clear with it. It sounds like what you’re talking about is you looked at the different meetings we’re going to, and then you looked at some of the meetings where you’ve got, you know what, I don’t really need to be there. Because I know that whoever is kind of leading that team, or that initiative or that project, I feel like they’ve got it, in fact, the words that I would use is I’m going to let them own it. So that anything that comes up, they’re going to take care of it, they’ll let me know, when the appropriate time is is that that that’s that sense of ownership? Is that kind of something you guys talk about?
Matt Kueker [11:53]
Completely? Yes. And I think now, like you said to that’s where it started. And you know, now with the total alignment amongst employees, you know, my direct reports are able to do that now as well, much more effectively than they work two or three years ago, just like myself.
Let me break in here for a second. I just want to remind you that if you love what you’re hearing today, and if you want to keep getting these episodes, then you can subscribe to iTunes. But you could also go to our website and subscribe. You’ll get some summaries of this each week. The episodes really are powerful. If you want to be a better leader, you want to be stronger, more confident, and a visionary leader for your team, just go to genehammett.com/subscribe. When you go there, it’s absolutely free for you to put in your email so that you can keep getting these updates. And let us stay in touch with you. Just go to genehammett.com/subscribe. Now back to the interview.
Gene Hammett [12:46]
Here’s the thing about it. And I have this conversation a lot with my clients too. I they want someone to to own it. And then they will say that they’re sort of a micromanager but not Not really. And they want their their executive, the CFO to own all the reports and all the stuff that’s coming out of it, for example. And I’ll ask them, if they’re modeling, what ownership really looks like with that person. And most of the time, they have to look in and say they’re not. It’s really kind of an irony, but between the CEO and whoever their direct reports are, I want to appreciate you for sharing these strategies with us, you know, having those right scorecards to allow you to tune in to what’s going on the team is a very important part of optimizing your time, but also saying no to meetings that you just shouldn’t be into. So I’m going to switch into part two of this conversation, which is, Matt, if you were thinking about what you’re going to do differently and show up differently in 2021. What’s that one thing as relates to your time that you want to do differently.
Matt Kueker [13:49]
The outcome that I want to achieve? Again, whether it’s a board meeting, or a large client, presentation, prospect pitch, or one of the very important, you know, urgent things that pops up, you know, my goal is to be appropriate in the moment. For every single interaction with every individual with whom I come into contact, I just want to have the maximum impact for every every hour of my day. And I think that’s a continued evolution of some of the strategies and tactics that we’ve just discussed previously in the conversation.
Gene Hammett [14:25]
So I’m writing this down maximum impact for every moment in the day. And I know that we had talked earlier, so I’m going to kind of bring you back to that and see, I know there’s a relationship here, but you want to create more whitespace in your calendar. When you think about moving forward, when you think about whitespace what exactly would you do with that whitespace.
Matt Kueker [14:45]
You know, for you know, being still relatively small, but rapidly growing professional services firm. I feel like a part of my job part of CEOs job is always going to be business development. You know, like I told you that was the function outside of my client practice, that was the function that I was doing before the I became promoted to managing director eventually CEO. And that was the one very impactful area that I saw a road from being a good chunk of my time to very little of it. And I’ve increased it some, but that is the area where you know, where I’ve got whitespace that I can sit and think critically, and, you know, put my plan of attack together and how they go about reaching out to people. That’s what I need to make sure I continue to focus on in my individual contribution area.
Gene Hammett [15:34]
So it’s a little different than I expected to hear. This is the coaching portion of this series. And so I want to kind of ask you, I’m going back to something you had said, I’m going to have maximum, you know, output for the time every day, and this whitespace is, is it really business development, like getting the next deal? Or is it something bigger than that, like strategic partnerships or something that’s, that really would change the dynamics of the company?
Matt Kueker [16:01]
No, absolutely. And I probably spoke too narrowly. You know, certainly, again, we don’t have full time the development of it yet, we haven’t made that investment. So being, you know, one of the small handful of individuals that used to dedicate a good amount of time to it, I do think my individual contribution is important, but certainly, and something that we’re actually talking about, it’s one of our high priority projects to start next year, is enabling others to also understand how to do that, to get good at doing it. strategic partnerships, we do have an organization we call capability, service leadership that owns that. So I feel as though that type of activity through the KPIs and understanding mutual understanding priorities and where we’re focused in those areas, you know that that’s pretty well, under control.
Gene Hammett [16:53]
I guess I’m a little surprised that you don’t have a dedicated sales team being around 50 employees. I know, you’ve got a lot of frontline, you know, technologists and strategists that serve the clients is that something that you plan to have on the team as these sales reps?
Matt Kueker [17:12]
It’s something that we’re constantly working on, and tweaking and pivoting in certain areas. It at some point in size, it likely is inevitable. You know, the challenge is, you know, at what point do you make that investment and, you know, I’ve done a lot of reading and emotion wise and I part of a Vistage group, I also know that that likely is going to come with finding the right person or the right people, it’s going to come with some trial and error, significant investments. So when that will happen, I can’t say. But again, we’re always looking to improve, change our means. And again, I didn’t get any more and more people that understand our philosophy, and our approach in how we go to market, I think can add quite a bit of fuel as well.
Gene Hammett [18:01]
So we’ve been dancing around all the reasons, or what you would do actually, with this time, what is the real struggle you have with putting time on your calendar for whitespace kind of thinking, and all the strategic work you just described? Is Is there a challenge?
Matt Kueker [18:15]
Where is that I need to find more of it? You know, I’ve for the one thing that needs to get done. Every day. I’ve gotten there, I’ve also learned about myself, I’m a morning person. So I’m get to a point where the hours from seven and 9am each day, you know, I have got that for the most important thing I that day that typically to your point before about maximum impact leverage, if you will, that’s not as an example, you know, keeping up with my own business development relationships. So I think the next point is when you filled a lot of the rest of the day with certain meetings, the whitespace is only accommodating truly those things that that warrant my attention that aren’t planned the day or week before. So the challenge I add is, you know, as likely getting from the two hours to something greater or greater understanding of what I continue to delegate and say no.
Gene Hammett [19:15]
I’m visioning your calendar right now, I love the fact that you have the seven to nine, I call that the genius hours, you know, when you do your best work your best thinking. I’m an early morning person too. So I actually get a little bit anxious when I’m not working during that time. And so I know to protect it. You’re nodding like you, you understand. Because once it’s gone, it’s gone. And then we get on with other stuff. When you think about the whitespace Is this something that you actually schedule on your calendar? Now?
Matt Kueker [19:47]
Largely Yes. seven and nine if I would say as I plan my week, I probably go in three out of five days. I have seven and 9am hours blocked on my calendar. Something else I started Doing as I’ve color-coded, as I’m, again, continuing to look inwardly and understand where am I spending my time, I’ve got three general colors, you know, high impact, I’m okay with it. And you know, red, typical rag red, Amber, green, and red are things where, you know, in retrospect, just didn’t need to be I wasn’t 100% impactful.
Gene Hammett [20:20]
You know, I, I talked about color-coding my schedule to it was such a game-changer to be able to look at it in a glance and say, How much am I spending on clients? How much am I spending on new business? How much am I spending on my team? And how much I spent on the podcast as well. The thing I want to really kind of wrap us around Matt, is if you want to create more whitespace, a lot of times it’s not that seven to nine period that that you were talking about getting the one thing done. It’s the you talking about the quadrant two stuff is the important stuff. Your seven and nine is probably your most urgent stuff in is that accurate or?
Matt Kueker [20:56]
Not that I would put in in important, less urgent, it really is more forward forward-thinking? I wouldn’t characterize it all necessarily strategic. But certainly high impact.
Gene Hammett [21:08]
Okay. When you. So you’ve got a lot of the things I’ve actually worked with my clients on. So I’m going to take you next level, when, what is the real issue there? Do you want more of that time? Or do you want to spend that time on more high-value stuff.
Matt Kueker [21:23]
I don’t have a problem with that time, what I would like to get to is, as things are coming up every single day, which they do not lose any of that time. And in fact, I’d like to get more of it. But really also to be able to be highly impactful as a backup I can, as everything is flying around my calendar intraday. And oftentimes, you know, I find myself coming in cold the things and it’s not as impactful. Sometimes it’s about mindset, right? context shifting, yeah. But I need to get to a point where I can balance all of those, and in my opinion, you know, handle better the things that do come up in real-time.
Gene Hammett [22:09]
So I’m kind of picking up that you need some some more clear rules around how you structure your day, whether it’s one of the things you just talked about was I want to go into the meeting prepared. And that’s not something that you’re probably scheduling right now. Is that clear?
Matt Kueker [22:27]
No, no, I mean, you know, unless there’s, I would say it’s only, you know, preparation in big board meetings in a lot of presentations otherwise, no, no, no, no, no schedule prep for it for those types of things.
Gene Hammett [22:40]
Let’s put the spotlight on that for a second. Because I think that could be a game-changer for you. Because it’s this is an area where you probably show up. I read the book Principles by Ray Dalio, we read that?
Matt Kueker [22:50]
No, I have heard of it, though.
Gene Hammett [22:52]
It’s one of my number one articles on ink, it just continues to get massive page views about transparency. But inside that he tells the story of a fellow employee not appear not a not only the executive team, but someone that’s like frontline said, Ray, you didn’t show up today completely prepared for today’s meeting. And the reason I share that with you is because he has he allowed the sense of transparency, to allow others to give him the feedback that he wasn’t aware of like he thought he could just wing it, he thought he you know, he’s smart, he could just come into the room. But he didn’t read the prospectus. He didn’t read the data in the graph. So the all the questions were catching him up. And so this Junior employee comes back and says, you know, you could have showed up more prepared. I’m giving the short version of this. So you’re, you’re feeling a little bit of that now, like you would like to show up a little bit more prepared with whatever, the KPI is the data, the scorecards, or maybe it’s just where this project is, let me just let me look at the CRM and see where this whatever is going is that is that fair to say? Absolutely. is the best way to do that, to do that in like, early in the morning. Or maybe before you right before you go to the meeting. Do you see you doing that? for the day across everything or just having five minutes before you go into the meeting? Or is it more than five minutes or something like that?
Matt Kueker [24:12]
It could be combination it myself it would likely be the evening before you know or or the morning, you know, that morning? You know, you’re mentioning this, that we need to be a two-way street. There’s a lot of meetings that pop up that have a relatively it’s hard to even tell what what the topic is based on the title. So I think having, you know, at least some semblance of agendas, you know, for every meeting before would be quite helpful in that regard.
Gene Hammett [24:38]
I had on here. Cameron Harold talk about his meeting his book meeting suck. And you know, the real behind that is meetings don’t suck. We suck at holding meetings. And one of the things he says is no agenda, no agenda. And this is a you know, again goes back to the rules of having more effective meetings. If you really value making the most out of the time that you’re working and your your team’s working. Having that agenda. That’s very clearly articulating the objective of today’s meeting that outcome, we’re hoping to decide on any data that’s related to it. Do you feel like that should be a standard part of being able to put something on your calendar?
Matt Kueker [25:20]
Yeah. I should absolutely said I probably 50% have that.
Gene Hammett [25:25]
Matt Kueker [25:26]
Certainly recurring meetings, the bigger ones, but not all of them.
Gene Hammett [25:30]
How prepared? Would you be to the meeting? If you had that on 100%? of your meetings coming in? And then how prepared with everyone else be? And then how prepared would that make, you know, how effective would that make the meeting?
Matt Kueker [25:43]
Yeah, it wouldn’t, it would be completely binary, I would either be 100% prepared, or I would realize I don’t need, I don’t need to be there. So it could even be more effective in that regard in terms of creating whitespace and being impactful.
Gene Hammett [25:57]
So I could read into this, but based on this conversation, what have you realized about the way that these meetings are showing up in your calendar, that you can improve them to optimize your time.
Matt Kueker [26:08]
Even for be more explicit about that, that requirement of at least a simple agenda is to understand what the point of the meeting is, what we hope to accomplish, would be really helpful, you know, and even for meetings that come up and need to be scheduled, intraday, I don’t think that would be too big of a leap for an organization to be on it. And it could be quite helpful.
Gene Hammett [26:31]
Do you feel that you have the kind of organization that would accept this kind of change? Or would you would you get pushback.
Matt Kueker [26:37]
Now I would accept this type of change. We’ve seen this all the time, as you know, we need to say we need to eat our own dog food, we need to take our own medicine, we need to do things as we advise our clients to do things. And we would never schedule a meeting for a client without having a really tight agenda, to allow everyone to be completely prepared. So it’s simply a matter of taking medicine.
Gene Hammett [27:00]
You know, it’s interesting that you say that, like, externally, we show up differently, right for our clients and for the outside world. But internally, we get a little bit lacks, and there’s a phrase that I use in executive coaching, is you get what you tolerate? And do you realize what you’ve been tolerating here internally when it comes to meetings?
Matt Kueker [27:17]
No, I do. Yeah. Like I said, it’s to your point, before we talked about it, it’s iterative, you know, I look at this as just another layer of the management model that we need to introduce, and then, you know, perfect over time.
Gene Hammett [27:31]
So I don’t know if we actually got to the heart of this more whitespace. But what we actually discovered was some of the things that you want to do differently as it relates to looking at your day. And I think having these meetings and having that agenda having just two or three things that if you had them on every meeting, you would know whether to attend, or when you did attend, you would know, be more prepared. So I think that if you were able to make that change, is that something you’re willing to commit to? Or is this just an idea, we’re kind of tossing around between two people
Matt Kueker [28:04]
Gone? Absolutely. Not only will I will commit to it, because it just makes a ton of sense. You know, like I said that we would never schedule something for a client or they have an agenda. I think it’s, it makes perfect sense. And it won’t only help me. I mean, it will help everyone.
Gene Hammett [28:19]
I agree, I think that not only would it help you and the people you’re in that meeting with but if this is something that’s carried through to all the meetings, and all the things that are happening, it makes people be a little bit more intentional about hosting that meeting, why we’re there, what that agenda is, what the outcome we’re hoping to get, or what we’re reviewing, and making sure everyone has, you know, the right materials. And if we if that would become a standard, you would probably feel a little bit more effective with the time that you have.
Matt Kueker [28:47]
For sure. And I think everybody would.
Gene Hammett [28:50]
Alright, so I’m going to kind of wrap this up, Matt, I appreciate you being here to talk about optimizing your time you shared with us some of the things that have already worked, we’ve been discovered one thing that you could actually do to help you feel more optimized as a CEO. So I appreciate you being here on the podcast.
Matt Kueker [29:05]
Thank you appreciate the time. Really enjoyed it.
Gene Hammett [29:07]
Well, let’s wrap up here just I would like to reiterate, when you think about your time, you have to make sure you’re spending your time on the most valuable aspects of the business. Because if you’re not looking at the strategic, you’re not looking out beyond where you are today, instead of just heads down, you’re going to miss that opportunity. What we talked about with Matt today is something that I think all of us struggle with, it’s just some fine tunings of how we look at our schedules. And this is something we should always be doing not just once a year, not just on a podcast with with some you know, podcast host, who’s an executive coach, but do it all the time. So hopefully this has been helpful for you if you are looking to uplevel as a CEO, make sure you think of me Jean hammock go get free resources at gene Hammett calm. When you think of growth and you think of leadership, think of Growth Think Tank, as always lead with courage. We’ll see you next time.
Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.
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