Difficult Conversations – Client Workshop
Leadership requires all kinds of communication skills. One of the most challenging skills to master is the art of difficult conversations.
Working with high-level leaders for years shows that many people resist these conversations way too much. This special workshop dives into the enemies of difficult conversations. We walk through the framework of difficult conversations that simplifies the process. You will discover the often missed parts that leave gaps in changing behavior in these chats. Learn from other leaders that join the workshop to share their perspective. You have my permission to share this within your company, but please don’t share it outside your teams without written permission from Gene Hammett.
Download slides from the workshop.
Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.
Okay, so this is a difficult conversation. This is a group, of fast-growth leaders and founders. And we’re going to look at this hopefully everybody can, can see this, but fine. I don’t see you.
[00:00:18] Are you able to see me?
[00:00:27] All right. I just hit a message or let’s get started. The main reason why we do this is that I want to prepare you for difficult conversations to change behaviors. And that’s really one of the goals we have. We have some special guests today, mainly this year Christian Everyone else is a client of some sort.
[00:00:47] We don’t know why we were missing three or four people, but we’re going to keep moving. This is a part of the fast growth, fast growth boardroom series, where I do coaching content and community. This is really a kind of a little bit of content, a little bit of community, cause I want people to share and this to be more, not of a presentation, but a conversation.
[00:01:08] The slides are just helped to prompt us through that conversation. And the main reason why we’re here is just to become extraordinary leaders and to create cultures that, that really do fuel the company and increase the value of our company. I had an important client this week that I haven’t worked with them in a couple of years, but they sold their company for 22 million, and really talking to them this week kind of going, you know, what’d you learn through the process and everything.
[00:01:33] And he took a moment. He’s like, no, I really want to thank you for helping me get a solid understanding of who I am as a business owner and a leader inside this company. And it really was good to hear that the work is, you know, increasing the value of a company because the value when we first started together was zero.
[00:01:52] No one would have bought his company. He was doing 18,000 a month and. He paid himself like 1500 bucks a month. And all he had was problems and stress and con all we had was contractors. He’d had no employees. And he said, he thought that was the way he wanted to scale his business. He ended at about 15 million in revenue, went before they sold and they had about 70 employees.
[00:02:20] So give you an idea, the. Important dates for those of you that are in the boardroom. We’ve got every month we do a monthly call on the first Friday, where we talk about the challenges and the goal that we’re going to set for the month. And then we do a workshop. This is the workshop for August. We’ll talk a little bit later about what the workshop in September will be.
[00:02:43] You’re going to help me shape that we have an event coming up. I had to change the date because of something. But those of you that, that are interested in, in that Porsche leadership experience, where we spend a couple of days together talking about our challenges and leadership we also raised horses.
[00:02:57] So that’s fun. It’s coming up in October. No, not September and October. We’ve got a winter experience. We’ve got a spring experience that will be on the target. And our agenda today looks like this. We’ve got. The enemies of difficult conversations, we’ve got a cost avoidance, you know, just look at what the cost avoidance is, and then we’re going to walk through the framework.
[00:03:19] So that’s what you can expect. This is a safe space. So, you know, don’t share anything you don’t want to be shared, made public, but also, you know, respect others. And if they do share something, if they mentioned an employee that they’ve had a difficult conversation with and they happen to mention the name, do not try to end around this whole thing.
[00:03:38] I know there’s no reason for this, but I just want to make sure we are treating this as confidential. We don’t have that many today, but I do even in that light be succinct as possible. That helps us really get our, our thoughts out there. And then, wow. It keeps okay.
[00:04:03] Put this over here, maybe. Alright. So you guys still see the screens, right? Yes. Yes. I see it. How do you sabotage yourself? So you may not sit through many of these kinds of training and whatnot, but what are some ways that we sabotage ourselves when we’re sitting down for something like this
[00:04:27] in regards to, having a difficult conversation with a, I’m going to go real top level here. When you’re getting training when you’re sitting through something online when you are here, how would you sabotage yourself? I know how I sabotage myself. I’ll start if I were a participant in this, I’m a leader.
[00:04:45] I can’t, I don’t have time for this. I would check my email.
[00:04:52] Of course my pen’s not working now. That’s a challenge today. How would you guys sabotage yourself on getting this done? Oh knowing full well that I’m not going to be fully engaged for the next hour and a half because I’m distracted by other things. Yeah, I would be yeah, that will pretty much make the majority of this useless. So focus, lack of focus.
[00:05:17] I bring this front and center because you know, your time is extremely valuable. My time’s valuable too. I mean, I could be spending time with clients and getting paid. But I. I create content like this for people because they know it works and I want to create the best content I can. And part of that is the interaction between us, what we’re learning, even you, but fun.
[00:05:37] Who’s not on video. We want you to participate when you can. And everybody is a part of this because we’ve done this for the last four months. And it’s part of my favorite part of the month, honestly, is to have these conversations. I’ve learned something. I think other people have learned something that had been a part of this.
[00:05:57] And I think I want to continue doing this no matter what. So that’s where we are. Any questions on that? Sabotage our goal is to prepare you to deliver difficult conversations, to change behaviors. If you have a conversation about behavior, doesn’t change. You really, probably haven’t done. What you set out to do is that fair to say?
[00:06:21]It could be the standards of employees. It could, this could be beyond employees, which we make. We’ve actually talked about this. We want to change behavior. So I want you to think for a second and I don’t need names, but what type of people in your life do you have a difficult conversation with?
[00:06:45] Obviously the first thing that comes to mind is employees. Right? Salespeople, salespeople. Okay. Got to do the ego leveraging every so often. Yeah. That can be different, difficult conversations with clients. Yes.
[00:07:06] We all had clients that have pushed the boundaries and asked for things more than what we’ve originally agreed to see the big smile on Christian space. We could also be partners, right? Yes. We have certain people we partner with. I would also add to this it’s kind of an ad. It could be family.
[00:07:24] Yeah. It’s different than work. Definitely difficult conversations. I think there are definitely some things that you could learn today to have a better conversation with your partner, your spouse, maybe even your kids. And I think that’s, that’s kind of the goal here is to create a framework and understanding of like, kind of what gets in the way of us having these difficult conversations.
[00:07:44]Speaking of, I call this the enemy question, what gets in the way of you having difficult conversations?
[00:07:53] Yeah. Well, the the, the family portion
[00:07:56] and then that can always, that sometimes gets you to know, it gets the emotions into it, but sometimes but I think when it comes to the business side with employees, is the risk, the chain, the chain effect of you presenting things in the wrong order, or that could be perceived as abusive or manipulative, that it has to be very short, sweet, clean, and honest where you’re going to have a reciprocal effect that you’re going to be paying for for a long time.
[00:08:29]So that would be. Yeah, just, just coming clean and getting to the point of it and doing it quick and easy. And with a smile and proper temperament, what would you add to that? What gets in the way of you having difficult conversations, maybe fear of the outcome? The uncomfortableness of it, right.
[00:09:02] We’ll find, can you answer here if you’re not able to answer, maybe you can put into the chat what gets in the way of your difficult conversations? It’s I had to let an employee go last week and I’ll be honest with you. It’s never comfortable. I never get used to it. And it’s been something on my mind for a while.
[00:09:25] And this basically the employee was a C player. There was nothing really wrong, but they weren’t really putting and forth the extra effort. There were many times where they were not around when I would expect them to be around stuff seemed to get done, but it never, never was really proactive. And I talked about it with someone else on my team.
[00:09:41] Who’s like, you know, this person had been with me for 18 months and I said, what? Sure feedback. And she’s like, well, I still have to help her with things I shouldn’t have to help her with. And that kind of gave me the clue, but that I’m tolerating less than I deserve. And then I’ve got this rock star who is always pushing the boundaries, always doing more and more and more and just phenomenal.
[00:10:04] And I said, if I, it played in my mind because I’ve had so many of these conversations if I don’t have this conversation quickly, I didn’t expect to do it that day. But I did. I’m going to show my rockstar employee that I’m tolerating something less than, and she would just, she’d probably dial it back.
[00:10:23] Does that make sense? Yes. And maybe I jumped ahead a little bit, cause that’s going to get into the cost of it, but it’s a great point. It is. And I will tell you because I’ve had so many of these conversations, it’s, I’m so hyper-aware of the confidence and courage. It takes to be a leader that when that, you know, I had felt it inside me for a little while, but I came back and I said, you know what, I’m going to do it today.
[00:10:46] I had, I had a one-on-one meeting with her that I was expected to like, just give her another, draw the line in the sand kind of meeting another difficult conversation. And this ended up being, not necessarily a difficult conversation. Cause it wasn’t that difficult. It was just like, it’s just time to part ways.
[00:11:01]So that’s, that’s a responsibility. Just add in that it’s a huge responsibility that we have to take if you’re going to negate your rockstars talents and abilities because of the fear of removing, removing something, or someone that will ultimately be toxic to the overall goal.
[00:11:20] And you know, it is an uncomfortable thing, but I’ve had the same situation, had a guy years ago, everybody, you know, he’s very well-liked, but everybody else has put him supposed to be performing here. And, and the ego and the, you know, the dark sense of humor was person, which was well-liked that brought 20 people down to his level and that equates to real money.
[00:11:45] And then that becomes a, you know, I w I’m not trying to equate cancer, but it, because it’s spread so quickly throughout all the rest of the operations. So the person that should be. Going out of that organization is most likely the leader because they didn’t handle it. And you got to handle it cause you have a responsibility to everybody equally.
[00:12:05] Yep. I want to document that when we get into the next section because I think that’s, you’re spot on. Here’s a couple of enemies I see quite often and it probably aligns with some stuff you’ve already said but choosing comfort over courage. I didn’t make this phrase. I’ll tell you, who did this?
[00:12:26] Does anyone know who, who made this phrase popular?
[00:12:31] I’ll tell you in a second. What does it mean? Jamie diamond now? Dark sounds like something he didn’t say. What does this mean to you guys? Choosing comfort over courage. That’s like putting off the difficult conversation. Yeah, because it’s more comfortable to just keep rolling
[00:12:58] and, you know, every conversation I’ve seen, we have to really pay attention to, to really leaning into courage. I have over 800 episodes on the podcast in one of the things that I end, probably 95% of them. I don’t know what it was in the very, very early days, but it just kind of connected to me that always lead with courage.
[00:13:20] And I think I say that and remind myself of that every day when I let someone go, it wasn’t comfortable. I’d let them sit there. We’ll wait too long, probably. And that was comfortable. And so we’ve got to choose the comfort, the courage over being comfortable. Bernay Brown was the one who said that.
[00:13:39] Integrity. I’ll let you guys read this, but you get an idea of this brave man. Renee Brown has got the number three or four Ted talk in the world. It’s like probably 40, 50 million views. It’s pretty hilarious. And the way she looks at the things she studies, vulnerability and shame. And as she moved into a little bit more leadership stuff, instead of personal stuff, cause a lot of her books are very personal.
[00:14:07]They’re all very good. I’ve read probably three of the five but choose comfort, courage over comfort. Any questions on this enemy?
[00:14:15]This happened the other day with someone I was talking to about this and it just really shifted to me. What if we didn’t think of it as a difficult conversation? What if we thought of it as an opportunity conversation? Well, that’s, that is what it is. It’s an opportunity. This is a mindset shift. And what I will say from experience that conversation.
[00:14:48] If you look at it, if you hold it as difficult, there’s going to be negative energy that you bring to it. But if you look at it as an opportunity, it’s a positive that makes sense. Yeah. And I think positive energy in, in most things in life is going to give you better results. There’s more connection through positive energy and experience.
[00:15:10]And in fact, I do believe this as you have these difficult conversations about, maybe take an example of like subpar standards, it’s not getting it done on time. It’s not the right quality. And you can get back in alignment. You’re able to change those behaviors. You can actually build trust through that conversation.
[00:15:34] You can get back to a place where you guys are talking again and not just people who are in the same building. Does that make sense? Yes, definitely. So, and the last one is choosing one over many, and these are somewhat overlay related, but I want to, I love the way this is kind of phrased because when you’re choosing to be comfortable,
[00:16:03] you’re probably thinking about yourself.
[00:16:09] Is that fair? I don’t want to have this conversation. I’m not ready. It’s going to be uncomfortable. It’s going to be this. It’s going to be that. You want to make sure that you’re truly understanding that you can’t just take and choose yourself over this. You could be choosing the other person and saying, you know what, that’s just, I feel bad for that person.
[00:16:29] I know they’re going through a tough time in their personal life. I was talking to someone the other day, they had to fire their best friend and they were thinking about the best friend, you know, what’s the right timing for it. And I go, I hear what you’re saying. And I had to come back into the voice of reason.
[00:16:44] I’m not emotionally attached. He’s not my best friend. Right. And I come back and say but what is the impact you’re having across the organization? And he’s like, oh shit, there are other people involved other than just the two of you. Yeah. And I think it’s a pretty good example. I had horse salts say on the podcast, who is the co-founder, Ritz Carlton.
[00:17:07]And he said something similar to this when I, we did that Porsche event a couple of years ago. And we had some people there and they were like, you know what happens when you got to let someone go? But it’s hard. He goes, yeah, I get that. It’s hard, but that’s your job to do the hard things. And he kind of said something like this, when you get your investors, your partners, your customers, your leaders, and your other employees all line together, he says, you’ve got five different categories of stakeholders, all aligned toward the mission and the goal of the business.
[00:17:40] And then you have someone that’s not pulling their weight. It is an absolute responsibility for you to have a conversation with that person because we have the mini versus the one. Do you guys get that? Yup. I’m trying to really make sure we drive this home because this is really important for us to understand that all great points.
[00:18:04] Great points. Now you talked about this Christian, that the cost of avoiding the difficult conversation, so impact I’m paraphrasing impact on others. The culture
[00:18:23] toxic people are similar to cancer. I’m not trying to offend anybody, but just kind of put it in like the story I tell when I try to highlight the cost of avoiding is this, well, let me, before I tell my story, Does anybody have anything that they can relate to and look at the cost of avoiding a difficult conversation?
[00:18:59] Well, yeah, so, you know, over my 20 years you know, I’ve terminated you know, a fair amount of people directly and I’ve always recorded the process of doing it, just audio recorded and just, but it’s just a habit, but the thing is, is that I’ve always done it tried to do it in under 120 seconds and get right to the point and all of these people thought that I’m, well, at least 80% of them, I have relationships with today that have referred business the way that I’ve retired after.
[00:19:33] You know, there’s some maturity going on, but we’ve all been fired by clients before, and we’ve all been maybe fired by vendors and whichever, but the most amazing thing happens. What people tell you about that, you know, you terminated them and they moved on and they moved on to something else and that’s led into cultivating your relationship with them, but it’s, they’ve matured or changed or whichever, but it’s always led into something else.
[00:20:02] The same thing, when a client, you know, the major client terminates you for whichever reason and survival mode, teamwork starts to kick in and that teamwork is needed to recover with clients. So you can start thinking about how are we going to recover? Cause we got to get this new business and find another avenue.
[00:20:21] Well, if you’re employing, if you aren’t letting these people go Without without trying to develop them or trying to work, whatever remedial action you’re doing the best thing for not just that person or your business, but for yourself, you know, there’s humility that goes with it, but for yourself.
[00:20:41] And a lot of people, a lot of people that I’ve let go over the years I still see, I still talk to normally and it ends up being the best winning situation. Now I’m sure some people would probably think the abruptness of the termination was probably not the, not best, but you know, it just, you move on with it and we all recover as bad as it was.
[00:21:04] And, you know, it’s as bad as it is, but ends up being the best. It really does. I’m making it sound horrible, Jean, I’m sorry. No, no. I mean, this is, this is the idea. I love the fact that you recorded. I haven’t really thought of that. That could be helpful if there ever is a future issue and you know, getting to it right away.
[00:21:23] I got no problem with that and I’m getting, you know, there’s usually a conversation I assume after the 120 seconds, like, okay. So here’s what, what’s what I see next. And, you know, yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. There’s always, there always, there’s the parking lot discussion, and yeah. You know, hug it out and you know, her sustained contact and make an effort, you know, make an effort to respond, reach out.
[00:21:47] And a lot of them, a lot of the people too, they moved on to start their own businesses and in creating small contracting companies and, and even competitors. People there are competitors with me, but you know, we, I five it, every time, you know, we have a good time, couple drinks and collaborate. So it’s really built professionally for me.
[00:22:08] It’s enough it’s worked out. Great. So but yeah, that’s all I can say to that. I did an interview the other day. I thought it was pretty interesting. And I was talking about it with a client. What if you took, the stigma of this ends a relationship when you fire someone, it doesn’t have to end it.
[00:22:24] Now, if they did something malicious, if they did something fraudulent, you know, something really against, you know, egregious to you, then maybe that does end the conversation. And that’s fine for you because you don’t need to repair that. But for the most part, people leave under fairly decent terms.
[00:22:41] Instead of saying that they’re, ex-employees this company referred to everyone as an alumni
[00:22:49] and Yeah, I’m glad you, you said aha on that. So to ex-employees, as alumni, what do you think the power of that is? Really? It takes a negative and turns it into a positive, right? Like, yeah. What do you think, Christian, number one, they’re engaged post-termination, but they’re still engaged feel part of it and it feels yeah, really, really it really changed.
[00:23:24] Yeah. I’ve never really thought about it like that. A really a change is the Changes all the elements, you know, the day after a month after a year after. And yeah, it’s, it’s maybe also a weight on or the person too. Yeah. I’m glad you guys see it that way because I really felt like it was just a huge shift for me.
[00:23:44] And this all comes from these amazing interviews I get to do all the time, but I, I see the value, not only between you and the person that is the alumni but what about the entire culture? When, when you embrace this lung, this concept of alumni, everyone is going to feel at ease. Like I don’t have to end my relationship with my friends.
[00:24:04] I don’t have to end this the way it traditionally is. It, it, and, and we’re working with a place of caring because I think a lot of people are coming to work, not just for a paycheck, but because we spend more than that. Our time, more home, more time working than we do at home awake with our family. And yeah, we want a place that people feel cared about.
[00:24:28] They feel a sense of belief, longing connection to, and this idea of, of alumni, is huge. I want to get into the framework, but I want to leave you with a story. And if you’ve heard this before, I apologize, but I, I did this Porsche event two years ago. There was talking about earlier and we had a great time and we got into the difficult conversations and this was before I had a framework and whatnot, but we were just talking about when, and did you avoid a conversation that you knew you should have had?
[00:24:55] And one of the guys said his company was numb, like number 28 on the list that year on the Inc list. So there’s growing just astronomically. They were hiring, you know, it seemed like 20 people a week during certain phases and you know, where he had three warehouses and they were growing, they were like a three PL kind of thing.
[00:25:17] You guys know what I mean right now, right? Yes. So you’re having this conversation and he’s like, you know, I meant to talk to my director of HR. I knew something was coming because every day I drove to work, I could see other warehouses being built in our drive to work. And I didn’t have it a conversation because that was, I really kind of wanted them to figure out the strategy, but I guess they didn’t see what I saw, but what I saw was competition for our employees.
[00:25:45] And I avoided the conversation for a couple of months. And then one day we lost like 28 people in one day. And the next day we lost another dozen. And the next day we lost another dozen five, whatever it was eventually, they were just bleeding with warehouse workers and come to the fact, he goes, you know what I said, what, what’d you learn in the exit interviews?
[00:26:09] He goes, well, in the warehouse world, we don’t get exit interviews. They just don’t show. This is unfortunate, but he goes, they left for a dollar more per hour. I was like, Ooh, that stinks. And he’s like, yeah, he goes, I really wish we would have gotten ahead of it. And w wouldn’t have been a money thing. It would have been something else.
[00:26:28] I said, do you know what this costs here? And he goes, yeah, we did the numbers. We had to go hire outside labor. We had to get them trained. We had to slow down our processes. We, it took us more than three months to recover from this. It costs us more than a quarter-million dollars.
[00:26:44] That’s the cost of avoiding difficult conversations. So let’s get into this framework. I developed this through this leadership on-ramp thing, and I think I wanted to share it with you guys because I think it’s very helpful. There are certain things we need to do before difficult conversations.
[00:27:03] There are certain things we need to be aware of during, and there are certain things we need to do. And I’m open for you guys to, to, to give me comments about things that you’re doing differently, that you like, that you don’t like. But we’re going to start with this before. It makes sense to kind of break it up in before, during, and after.
[00:27:23] So every framework has to have some way to help you do it. I know there are 10 steps to this, and it’s really a lot more than 10, but these are difficult conversations, not easy conversations. So it’s going to be, it’s going to be kind of an intense first of all, check your emotions. If you come from a place of delivering this, this, this thing in haste is probably coming from a place of frustration, anger, resentment, resignation, those types of emotions probably won’t allow you to have the best conversation.
[00:27:57] Do we all agree? Yeah, definitely. So before you do anything and you realize that there’s something really going on here, even if it’s in the moment, yelling and screaming, probably isn’t the leader you want to be. If you’re really intentional, I’m not saying don’t get angry and really draw a line with someone, but check your emotions and go into an intentional, instead of just off the handle.
[00:28:21] That’s first and foremost. And secondly, we want to make a plan and there are many parts of the planning process, which I’m about to walk you through. Just so that and their questions to help you prepare for this because the more prepared you feel, the easier it is to deliver. Even if you deliver the bad news at 120 seconds, as Kristen said, all of this stuff will help you prepared.
[00:28:42]And maybe this, this really isn’t about firing. This is really about kind of that change in behavior that you’re wanting to do. Someone’s showing up. Constantly or someone’s substandard work or someone’s got some, some personal issues with someone else in the office and you’ve got to have, it’s been escalated to this point and you’ve got to have a difficult conversation.
[00:29:03] So those are examples. So let’s walk through the plan again. I told you there’s a lot to this, but what is the real issue? So you ask yourself the question, not just what are the symptoms
[00:29:16] when you want the real issue. Right? We often time don’t really think about the real issue. We think about the symptoms. So I’m asking you to get really present with what is really going on here. I could give examples behind this, but I think we’re for, for lack of, I don’t want to spend most of our time on these examples and stories.
[00:29:38] I’ve got a story for everything if you know me but that’s the first place. What is the impact that this is having now in the future? Because you want to get really sober to the, is it a financial impact? Is it a cultural impact? Is it a client impact? Know what are the real aspects of what’s going on?
[00:30:04] Why do you think that’s important as you prepare for this difficult conversation?
[00:30:11] I think it helps keep some things in perspective as to why you’re having the conversation, you know, keeps you may be on track as well and make sure you’re, you know, really kind of addressing. The issue so that these impacts don’t happen. If you didn’t have the conversation. Right. I’ll tell you too. I think just adding on what you’re saying, I think one thing is many times we’re able to initially go into something and say, this is not that big a deal.
[00:30:43] Let’s take someone showing up late for four meetings consistently. They’re always three minutes late. Is that a big deal? I don’t know. But if you take back and say, what’s the impact of this and say, well, what if everybody started showing up late and what a three minutes turn into five and turns into seven and all of a sudden, no one takes it seriously.
[00:31:09] And I’m not trying to be too doomsday here, but like the impact of tolerating, something that might be small. If you really ask this question and carry it through, you might say, okay, you know what, before it gets to that point, It’s time to have the conversation. So it might escalate you to actually do this earlier, as opposed to kicking it down the road.
[00:31:30] Does that make sense? Yeah, especially if you can tie money to it, because I find that a lot of times people if we could put a dollar figure for it, it, if, if the story I said earlier if he could have gone back and said, you know, what if we ever had to go to outside contractors, I wonder what that would cost us per employee.
[00:31:47] And, you know, w what’s the ramp-up time and all that stuff, oh, you know what? We need to be much more intentional. Let’s take some of that money now and funnel it into creating a better work environment and creating more whatever culture connection. And it might be harder, with warehouse workers.
[00:32:05] But I know that when we did an interview first, he was like, I love my people and they love working here. And they’re willing to really put a lot of effort into this, but something was missing down the road. Here’s the big one. That’s hard. How have you contributed to the issue? I’m gonna ask you to give me an example here.
[00:32:24]If you’ve got an employee whose sales numbers are off and you’re the leader of this business, how would you be contributing to their sales numbers being off? Hmm, I could, I could spend a lot of time on this one, but number one construct you’re contributing by not showing a proper roadmap of what success looks like, what development and prospecting, what, what percentage of your day should be in that?
[00:33:00] And what a proper prospect success means pipeline building and customer checking calls, understanding what the. Next month, the next year, the next five years look like. So if all of that, isn’t tied in together and they’re not doing this daily, if they’re off on their sales numbers. And typically that’s the first thing that always fixes it.
[00:33:23] So when somebody is off on sales numbers, it’s that I or the person responsible is not being sensitive enough to work through and really investigate and exploring and trying to co recultivate this person regenerate some bad habits, which we all get into. I think you’re right. I highlighted something while you were talking, blaming others makes you the victim.
[00:33:50] Yeah. Here’s the place where we as CEOs and founders of our companies have to realize that we can’t blame others ever. It’s just the way it is. You hired them. You hired leadership that hired them. You didn’t, you know, put, make it up priority for the standard operating procedures that are necessary for them to be successful at their job.
[00:34:14] You didn’t give them the right training. You didn’t invest in them. You didn’t give them time. You, if you blame others, you take full control of yourself to lose control of the situation because you’re waiting for them to fix it. Does that make sense? But if you take a, take a chance to say, where do, where am I, I wrong?
[00:34:37] You know what? I should have coached them a little bit more. I could have given them more conversations. So I know that that’s one thing that we probably need to talk about. As we look at changing the behavior, how can, you show up differently? What do you need to, how do you need to be and how do, what do you need to do to change this behavior, but just cost, you know, Casting yourself as the victim will never give you the power to truly affect what’s next.
[00:35:09] Does that make sense for you guys? Oh yeah, I agree. It’s hard. I have a tough time with my wife right now. She’s not listening to me in this good thing, but like I’m the victim or she’s the victim in so much stuff.
[00:35:26] Yeah. And,
[00:35:31] and, but, and I’ve, I felt like a victim inside of our relationship too, because I told you this could apply to family, but so I come back and say, well, what if I’m not the victim? And like, one of the things she wants me to do, and she’s just, she’s like, you know, I love a made-up bed every day. It’s just a small little thing.
[00:35:47] It’s like, what is it? 30 seconds, 30 seconds. And I don’t, I’m not saying that you should make up your bed or whatnot, but she likes it. And I just said, you know what? I know she’s an act of service kind of person, my responsibility. Instead of me being a victim saying I didn’t sleep very well and all this stuff.
[00:36:05] And so I’m going, just going to, I’m not going to do it today, but I’m usually the last one out of bed and it’s usually six 30. So give me an idea. But it takes like 30, 40 seconds. I have to take responsibility for that. I, I agree with her.
[00:36:22] I do it most days. Alright. The outcome, I think this is all in the pre-planning, but what’s the outcome you want of this? Most of the time you want the outcome to be, I understand I didn’t do it the right way or I, I can do better. And here’s my plan to do that. Right. Something along those lines, we would love for every conversation probably to end.
[00:36:50] And I know what to do next. I take full ownership of this. Please give me a chance to prove it to you. But you want to make sure you’re thinking through what is the ideal outcome for these things. You might even go beyond ideal. You may say, you know what, what’s the middle-of-the-road outcome, and really just figure out how do I re-engineer this?
[00:37:10] How do I get to that point when you’re thinking about it? The end in mind is a good thing to think about in these situations. This is an easy one. How will the person react? We all have people that we know will react, you know, much more aggressively than they probably should. Some people will be very calm.
[00:37:28] Some people might cry and you need to go prepare yourself for what’s going to happen. You got to see the value of that. Yeah. And plan accordingly. Think through what’s the best way to get a commitment from this conversation. If you’ve had a difficult conversation and there’s no commitment, you’re probably missing an opportunity to really get clear about what is going to be different in the future.
[00:38:03] And this is what I would talk about ownership. You want them to own
[00:38:12] whatever’s in front of them owns it.
[00:38:18] If they’re late, when you own the fact that you need to be on time and maybe on time for you, it’s five minutes early, because if this is an issue or what you really want this commitment to action, does this make sense? Yes. And I think these are just things that we just don’t think about the inside of our C R or conversations in pre-planning.
[00:38:42]I love this one. I thought about this one. I’m going to put a star next to it. What do you really want to say now? Not saying that you should say what you really want to say, but I want you to play through in your head. What would you really like to say? If you didn’t have to have a filter and worry about hurting them?
[00:39:01] Is this, this, this question makes sense. Yeah. Does anything come to mind about an employee that you’ve made in the past, or maybe currently, what do you really want to say? And you didn’t say it? Yes. In my opinion, when I’m working in executive coaching and I’m helping people figure out these difficult conversations and they are not.
[00:39:23] When I asked this question, what do you really want to say? This is when they go, you know what? I was just really frustrated that this is the fifth time I’ve had to have the same fucking conversation. And I’m just, I got to, we got to do some different, this is when they really go, you know what, now’s the time to draw that line in the sand to say, if you don’t get it this time, then we have to find another place for you in the organization, or another way for you to, to, to add value here.
[00:39:56] Or we’ve got to find another path for you. Yeah, it’s dependent. One question I’ve always thrown in there like to get, really get to the meat of it is if it’s with someone higher up in the food name typically what’s what leads all these discussions is it’s, it’s anybody that’s disruptive, disruptive to culture, disruptive to your core values and disruptive to division, which means that what, whatever they are doing is, is steering the ship away from the intended targets.
[00:40:33] So or landing point, but the question I’ve always asked is is this how you manage your personal life? And, and then, you know, it’s, it’s like, well, no, then it helps hone in on the problem and be like, well, I don’t understand the question. Well, if, if you’re committing to do something in your personal life with people, family, whichever, and you don’t do it.
[00:41:01] What did they think of you after that? Are you reliable? No. No, they wouldn’t find me reliable. And so they basically just answer the owners of their own issues and then start to get invested into it. Exactly what we’re talking about. And then they’re in a corner and they can’t get out and they have themselves brought out, even though you’re talking about one problem, they’ve brought out 10 other problems that they’ve identified that are the, and it’s like, all right, good.
[00:41:28] So we got these things, how do we improve it? How do we get this department to like you again, you know, to want to work with you and collaborate and do all these things? How do we do that? And then, you know, it’s just kind of, you know, just guiding somebody to the well, sometimes that’s what I’ve seen most of the time is starting with a question.
[00:41:48] Do you manage your personal life? And then they just ended up connecting the dots. There, love that question and where I’m hearing this, this is something you deliver inside when you’re, you know, during that conversation, you get to the heart of, of this. And we’re going to talk about the power of questions inside of that in the second.
[00:42:11]But I do agree with everything you’re saying with all this, the, before we leave on this, this whole thing, what do you really want to say? This doesn’t mean you would deliver the conversation exactly the way you would say it. You can cuss with your executive coach. I’m perfectly fine with it. In fact, love you more for it.
[00:42:33]Because sometimes they’re just the word fuck. Just does. No other word will do. You may feel differently, but I, I think that getting it out. Takes you a place of clearness on how, where you need to go with this situation. If you’ve had the conversation five times and you just can’t bear to have it a six, or this is the sex and you don’t want to have a seventh, let’s be clear with that.
[00:42:59] Then you go now is the time when we get, we set the expectations so clearly that they can’t be misunderstood. Does that make sense? Yes. Yep. Perfect. What do you really want to say? I still do not want to say it in this media though. Sometimes you fight and if that’s that, that’s your way you roll and that’s the way you’re going to set the tone for this.
[00:43:21] And maybe it is, you know, to that point. But I just, I’m saying this. It’s good to go through it in a process of preparation. And it may come out differently when you actually deliver it. Cause it’ll, it will tell you where you need to really push into maybe not with the same tone and frustration, but it will tell you the areas at which you really, you know, what, what gets really hard at this.
[00:43:43]Yeah. Yeah. It would have to be something like your parents really just didn’t love you. Did they say you want to say, and I don’t know? Yeah. There are so many things that come to mind, but no, I get the point. Yeah, you wouldn’t want to say that one probably. No, no, no, no. I can appreciate you saying it to me, your coach picks the right time in place.
[00:44:07] So, you know, you must be doing this in a place that makes sense. Is it in front of others? Probably not most of the time, those things really need to be done in a private situation so that you can have a real conversation, real honesty that’s necessary. And so that means you want to do it at a time when your energy is the right place when their energy is at the right place.
[00:44:30] And and really just be intentional about that. Think about the words you’re gonna say, this is a framework I’m not giving you word by word. You know, there are just too many combinations, of what you could do, but try not to be direct, like you were talking about Christian. Like if you’re going to fire someone, I like that 120 minute seconds get right to it.
[00:44:49] And then there’s a more of a conversation it’s like, okay. So here’s, what’s next. Here’s what you didn’t expect. Don’t ramble plan that out ahead of time. And then I added this in just recently, cause avoid difficult conversations over email. Has anybody ever attempted to send real targeted feedback to someone over here?
[00:45:06] Yes. Does it work out the way you want it to? Never. So I added it in here for a reason. Damon, can you, yeah. You know, I think on slack, I’ve given some feedback that probably could have been better face-to-face yeah. Yeah. So I put other channels in here. I’ll add slack or text it’s. This is choosing courage over comfort.
[00:45:35] It’s easier to type it out and kind of like, just get it out there because you don’t have to face them. You don’t have to deal with the emotions you have to deal with all of that stuff. And, and, and all the things that really make a behavior change necessary. Most of the time, these emails never really work.
[00:45:50]They usually backfire, so that’s the entire planning process. Any questions on that before we dive into the next piece? That’s great. All right. Again, I’m not here to give you the step-by-step, but to give you the Franks be fully present, what does that mean to you guys?
[00:46:17] Engaged? Not distracted, right? Yeah. Full attention. Full eye contact.
[00:46:34] Love that one. No one mentioned this thing. Where, w what role does this thing have in the difficult conversations environmentally, use it as an audio device. Recording. Recording. Yeah. Yeah. I and I love the fact that you talked about full eye contact. I used to do some coaching. When I first started coaching 10 years ago, I worked with a charity for autistic people.
[00:46:59] And this one guy was, as you, as you probably guys know, autistic people have certain capabilities. And this guy had a capability with data that was off the charts, but personally, he did not have the ability to really communicate because he was way far on this autistic range. And they wanted me to coach him a little bit.
[00:47:20] So to get a job at a place where he’d be working with data most of the time, but he would still have to interact with people. You guys get the setting of the table. And the only thing we really ever talked about, and this was just having a conversation. He’s talking to me and he’s like over here talking to me and I said, why don’t you look me in the eye?
[00:47:43] And he goes, well, I didn’t know. No, I get the fact that he didn’t have the personal cues that we, we understand that we’re doing. I’m even looking you guys in the eye when I’m not meaning to look at your pictures, I’ve trained myself to look at the camera, not at your images. Does that make sense? But in this case that one shift allowed this guy to go into interviews and look people in the eye and have conversations.
[00:48:06] He still had odd physical cues and, you know, relationship cues, and he just wasn’t picking up on, but he got the job and, you know, don’t know where he is today because it was years ago, but I felt really powerful that one little shift changed the way he showed up for that, that opportunity. And he was so happy to be a productive citizen.
[00:48:28] And I’ve, I feel honored to be a part of it, but my contact is very important. So acknowledge the news or feedback is going to be difficult to hear. I don’t believe in the shit sandwich. Do you guys know what the shit sandwiches
[00:48:42] do you w what’s the short version of the shit sandwich for you guys? Just a conversation filled with bullshit, just, just dancing around the whole topic and not hitting it. So my understanding of the shit sandwich is a little bit different. It’s the same, but different than here’s the details.
[00:49:00] Good, bad. Good. For example. I’m going to take that the person, Hey, I really appreciate the person that fired was my VA who did my calendar and my email. I really appreciate you taking care of my email and calendar. You do a good job for the most part. But many times are not available and it really wants you to be more available, you know, be more timely in doing this, but just keep in mind that you’re doing a good job with emails.
[00:49:30] I really appreciate the personal attention. The high school breakup. Yeah, I got it. That’s me, the shit sandwich because there are two pieces of bread that, are packed on the metal that is meant to soften the blow yeah. Of, of this. I, I don’t think that works the way we want it to. It makes us feel comfortable.
[00:49:52] Cause we’re, we’re, we’re giving them some level of respect and recognition for what they do well, but what we really want. Achieved in India, it just doesn’t work. So I’m going to make sure I go does not work well. Acknowledge that we’re, you know, Hey, we’re going to talk about something here that you may feel like you want a challenge, but you may want to be, you might be upset about, I hope that you don’t, this is about, this is an opportunity for you to improve and, and really step up to the next level.
[00:50:27]Sometimes I might, it didn’t work well with my, my whole thing, but permission color,
[00:50:40] I like to get permission or ask permission is when you’re, Hey, yo, are you open to some difficult feedback about your performance in that meeting? Of course, they’re going to say, yes, Nope. Don’t have time for today. But you asked for permission, sets the tone for we’re going to go into this and it’s serious.
[00:51:02] It’s something that you want them to take seriously. So if you’re really giving difficult comp a difficult conversation, don’t rush it. Take your time, make sure that you’re clear, you’re setting expectations. You are really doing this the right way. Rushing. It will never give you a chance, the behavior that you want.
[00:51:23] Does that make sense? Yes. Right. I know. I know. Time is valuable for every one of you but allow for probably three times more than what you think is a good rule.
[00:51:39] Does anybody want to challenge that? No, that’s a great point that got me thinking. No. I know it’s simply because you’ve played it in your mind. Maybe you’ve done the planning and you’ve got it down, but this is the first time they’re hearing it. A friend of mine just broke up with her husband and they’re going to get a divorce.
[00:52:00] It’s actually my wife’s friend, so it’s not my friend, but she keeps coming home saying, you know, the husband, he’s having a tough time. And I’m like, and she’s, she’s pointed out. I mean, it’s very clear to me. She’s like, this is the first time I’m hearing it. He processed it for months to get to this point of making this decision.
[00:52:19] And he’s just now going through all those emotions again. And it’s going to take him a long time to get to the point. And he’s such a nice guy. He is having a really difficult time with this. I know this is a personal side to this, but just, imagine that if you think it’s going to take 15 minutes, give yourself 45.
[00:52:40] If he finishes sooner than that bonus time. Yeah. And that’s really because this is not about firing someone. This is about helping someone move to the next level and get to the next level of standard. Maybe it’s about them getting a promotion someday. And I’ve had this conversation. I want to promote you, but you’re not ready yet.
[00:52:58] Here’s what you need to do to get ready. That’s a difficult conversation because you’re giving them feedback on where they’re not in alignment with where they need to be. They want their promotion. So hold your tongue. I think this means to me, listen, really listen to what they have to say. I think this is where you asked that question about your personal life, because what I really, you liked about that Christian, just to put a spotlight on it is you’re asking a question as a coach would, and it’s a deep question.
[00:53:39] Would you treat the SIS the same way as you, in your personal life? No, I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t want people to know that I’m not showing up on time. I’m not honoring my word. It’s like, well, why is it different here? You’re asking these questions so that you can listen and really help them discover for themselves the necessary shifts.
[00:54:03] Because if you tell them you’re not honoring your word, it’s a very different experience than them going. You know what I need to, I need to honor my word. I need to be impeccable with my words. If they say that it’s a very different experience, moving forward, you telling them versus them discovering it for themselves.
[00:54:22] You guys see that, right? Yup. Yup. Be explicit. I think I said this before. This comes from the entire leadership communication module, where explicit really means impossible
[00:54:38] to miss understand a difficult conversation should be in the realm of extremely clear, Hey, this is what I’m seeing. This is what I feel from this. I’ve got some feedback from some of the others on the team. You’re not really collaborating at the point where they trust you. You’re taking credit for things.
[00:55:03] And this has got to stop. This is not what we believe in. This is, this is against our values here and here, when you’re explicit, they cannot misunderstand this. They can’t walk away going. You know, that didn’t go so well. I’m really not. I’m really not sure what I do next. They should be crystal clear about what’s next.
[00:55:24] Does this make sense? Yeah. So this leads us right into the tactical plan, which is pretty good. It’s like, I usually go, you’re not going to come up with everything, but I typically say what’s the next three moves,
[00:55:43] right? That a little bit. Sure.
[00:55:48] A move can be a conversation. They need to have with someone else. The move could be, I need to set more alarms on my, my, my phone. I need to schedule my travel time a little bit more effectively. I need to leave the house earlier. They need to identify it. I really believe this is something that they should be doing.
[00:56:10] Not you make sense. Yep.
[00:56:25] My fancy tools here. All right. So you’ve got all this planning ahead of time. You’ve got all this stuff that you do during any questions on the, during. No, that’s good. Now we go into this. This may not always be necessary, but yeah,
[00:56:53] at the very least email after the direct conversation, but in some cases, you may need to formally document. Does anybody have any situations where they wish they would have formally documented a conversation and they did? Yeah, you record yours. So that’s a form of formal documentation. I don’t know if you send it to them and whatnot, but that’s always an email and always whoever’s in charge of HR, just so there’s some sort of documentation and record of it.
[00:57:29] And that’s just habit. This comes with maturity and leadership. We’d like to think that they get it the first time. I, you know, the email could easily come back and give you why this is important. You know, next three moves. I think it also should. You should also have as part of this tactical plan, I’m going to go back up here and add this is the next check-in.
[00:58:00] Right. So here it comes back to check-in. Hey, if you were given a thing on Friday, you might go, Hey, I’ve got a spouse on Tuesday. Let’s have just a really brief meeting. I want to, I want this to really sit inside you and you come back and let me know what you’re committed to doing as we move forward. So how’s Tuesday at [4:00] PM and you put it on the calendar inside the meeting.
[00:58:29] I always like to book a meeting from the meeting because it just makes sense. It’s there, it plays in their mind. It gives them a little space. Some people need space to process. And so the check-in afterward doesn’t have to be as long. It should be very to the point. It should be them coming.
[00:58:44] If, if we’ve really done this well, it shouldn’t be them coming to you as like, you know, what is hard as that was to take. I get it. I take full ownership of how I need to improve the relationships with the people in my team. And I plan to do this, this, and this. And then you may feel like it’s taken care of, you may say, you know what, let’s check out on this in two weeks.
[00:59:07] Let’s do another one of these things. Just see how things are going. See if I can help you and support you. Do you see how that’s a pretty good plan after the fact of this and you document that in the email? Yes.
[00:59:20] I also think one part of this should be
[00:59:23] let them know. You’re given a difficult conversation, not because you’re an asshole, I hope it’s because you really do care about them playing at a level that is expected of them, of their, their salary, of their future salary, of what they’re capable of doing. And you taking a moment to express a little bit of that care and empathy about what they’re going through.
[00:59:46] This doesn’t mean that you’re buying into all their bullshit and their story and their victimhood. That just means that you’re truly coming as a leader that understands care. Does this make sense? Yes, it does. Yeah. I was always, that’s always the step that you can always miss very easily. And it’s good that you’re pointing that out.
[01:00:07] Okay. I appreciate you saying that. I will tell you like I had one of my clients, a $22 million company and he, we, we really dive into some of the deep issues of why he’s not showing up as the leader. Of this company that he needs to be, and he’s very experienced and he’s been running this company for eight months, right years.
[01:00:26] And it’s he’s the CEO. He’s not the founder he’s been brought in by the investors in the equity. And he came in and he’s like, I know that I can be, I can care too much. I can really not hold them accountable for the things that they’re saying. And it’s a problem. I need to be a little bit more direct.
[01:00:49] I still want to care and have empathy, but I want to be, I want to hold people accountable for what they say they’re going to do. And that’s the way we’re going to move forward so you can care too much. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. Yep. It might be rare. But you want to make sure that you understand that you people need to feel cared for.
[01:01:15] They need to feel a sense of belonging. So I’ll wrap that up with this. So now we have a clear picture of what’s before, during, and after any questions on any of these? Nope. No, that’s good. Perfect. I when I email you guys, I’ll email you, the simple framework of this that gives you the details so that you can do this.
[01:01:42] One of the things that I love to be able to do, you know, Christian, I know you’re not employed or not a client and whatnot, but this is available to anybody in your county. So, you know, I kind of came up with this and this training is something I do for my clients, but I’m going to give it to you and you can share it with anybody you want in your company.
[01:02:02] I ask that you not share it beyond the company. But if you want the recording, you’ll get it. You’ll get a transcript, you’ll get the frameworks around this stuff, all that stuff’s absolutely free for coming and supporting us today. So
[01:02:19] one last thing on this, the art of listening,
[01:02:24] nearly every leader I know could improve on this. And I’ve worked really hard on mine because of being a coach and being in the question, asking game asking questions that I got to listen to intently, right? Another way to put this is active listing.
[01:02:48] Would you guys say that you could improve your listening? Yes, always. What gets in the way of you not listening fully during any kind of conversation wanting to respond immediately? Defensiveness
[01:03:09] disregarding de-valuing what’s being said to me. Yeah, that’d be it. You want to add anything to that, Damon? I think, you know, wanting to get my points in as well.
[01:03:31] One of the things that I would, I would ask you guys to do, if you really want to improve. Through difficult conversation. It really any conversation is listening beyond the words. Let me give you an example. You had some of that who you’re talking to about something and it could be just running the mill and you go, but the way your body language is right now telling me that there’s something you’re holding back.
[01:04:01] I’m getting really direct with that because I want them to realize that this is not just a movie, but you might be reading, you know, this whole thing, or maybe they’re slumped in their chair like this. I would never if I had given my this presentation like this, would you guys have felt the same way now?
[01:04:19] No. So being able to read body language really is something that you can add to your listening skills beyond the words. Many times when I’m talking to my clients, I’m like, okay, so here’s what I’m feeling. From what you’re saying, I’m reading between the lines and I’m, I’m asking it as a question most of the time because I want to make sure that I’m in alignment with this, but I’m not afraid to go there in the real world.
[01:04:44] What this looks like is I remember when I first learned these coaching skills and we’re talking about listening. I remember I was, I was in a, I was a sales rep for a company. This is 11 years ago. And I was talking to the CIO of a company as a pretty big deal for us. It was just kind of an entry point.
[01:04:59] Project ended up being a really big deal for our company. But this one conversation they brought us in for. She told me everything that she needed, you know, I’m going to give her a quote and whatnot. And I said, you know, I feel like you’re, there’s something you’re not telling me. And she goes, no, this is it.
[01:05:13] And I go, you know, I don’t know what it is, but I can take it like what’s really going on here. And she’s like, okay, here’s the deal. I want you to do this project as we talked about, but I also, I’m new to this role and I’ve got a team of like nine people. Am I on this, this data team? Do I have the right people?
[01:05:35] Because I was willing to probe into what’s not being said and not afraid. She actually told me in that, you know, she didn’t even put this out for bid. She was just like, yes, I want you to do it. But she did say this can not be in the contract because I don’t know where it’s going to go across the organization.
[01:05:53] So this is kind of a, just an understanding between us that we’re going to do an evaluation of the team as well as this, this analysis of the data. And I go totally. Got you out. We’ll make sure we take care of you. Do you guys see that? That’s, you know, listening beyond the words. Yeah. You want to also listen for commitment if you’re really moving forward inside of your relationship with your people.
[01:06:18] No. I talked about ownership a lot. You want to make sure that they’re really owning it if you’re not sure the best thing you can do is go, you know, I know we’re talking about this, this project for some reason, I don’t feel like you get it. Or you may say, explain to me what we’ve just been talking about so that I know that you do get it.
[01:06:42] And you’re looking for not just the words they’re saying, you’re looking for the energy and the confidence they have in this. Because if they’re not a hundred percent confident, they’re going to walk away going, God, what am I supposed to do now? And that’s what you don’t want. And you’d rather spend an extra five or 10 minutes to get that commitment up front.
[01:07:00] Then have to go through this again. The next time you guys talk. We agreed on that. Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely. And of course, we’ve talked about this being fully present.
[01:07:14] Remove the distractions to be really clear. I get the fact that we want to respond and get the fact that we’ve got a lot going on. I get the fact that this might buzz and this might do something. Do you guys realize when I said buzz, that my email came in though, and it took my eyes away from it for a second?
[01:07:31] That’s something we want to minimize. Yeah, it wasn’t an email. It was something about passwords be fully present and all the, and all that you do not sometimes, but all that you do, it’s a challenge. Be fully present with your son, be fully present with your, your wife. Be fully present with your dog.
[01:07:51] Try that on for size. Be really present with your dog. What do you think? They love it. They love you no matter what. Right? But being fully present with those people in your life that you really care about is one of the best things you can do. Provide that connection. So I just thought, I’d say that
[01:08:10] now, your next difficult conversation, if I can help you, Christian, in any way, you’ve got something that you want to talk through and get clear about. Doesn’t matter what it is, my gift to you just for showing up today. Damon’s already a client, so we talk regularly about the difficult conversations.
[01:08:27] Have they been helpful? Damon, when we talked about those? Yeah, definitely. You know, we’ve gotten through some really, really tough situations, especially in the last six months, even, right. Like, you know, teams and people and you name it. So yeah, no, it’s been really good and, oh, Christian, if I can help you with this in any way, reach out to me, let’s just.
[01:08:49] I’m not going to you. I promise. I’m sorry. I have a waiting list right now, so it’s not even like we need clients, but it’s just good to have relationships. You never know where things are going to go. So what did you like most about today?
[01:09:05]You asking me? Yep. Okay. Showing that you care, that was probably the most reflective point that and that got to be a little bit and not just with, you know, employees, you’re counseling or trying to terminate, but also you know, in personal portions and a lot of other things of the the the human.
[01:09:33] The human aspect of it. I think, you know, you know, my brain kind of went off into things that all of us should have learned in high school about interpersonal connectivity and social and things about basic teamwork elements of letting go of ego and really having a clear comprehension of what point B looks like and what happens past point B and why point B is so important, not just in business, but in anything and the part of it that I think.
[01:10:11]And I think that that I lack is that in, in those, those endeavors and those actions, you sometimes can use the human element of Understanding that you could have just credited somebody or just dismiss some certain things because you weren’t being human in, you know, so I like to pride myself on being a very, a very caring person.
[01:10:41]But I could also say that a lot of my statements on the topic could be bullshit, so it was more reflective for me. So it was helpful. I appreciate you going to that depth. Cause that was very clear around, you know, the reason why we do something like this and kind of engage with each other around this.
[01:10:59]One of the things before Damon, you go into your, what you like most is we rarely take time. To look at the meta aspects of leadership and culture and people. We talk about the work we need to get done. We talk about, you know, whatever it is on the horizon, but we never say, you know, what does it mean to give a difficult conversation and how do I sharpen the skills on this?
[01:11:20]And, and in fact, I think that you know, I love books as you can see behind me, I’ve got books here on the desk. I rarely ever have a book that impacted me so much that it’s changed the way I behave inside of this. But when I start doing things as this and I engage, I playing a higher level in my difficult conversations, and then I’m committed to that.
[01:11:41]Not because I have to, but I want to be a great example of what I expect from my employees and what I expect with my clients. So I really appreciate you sharing and being here today, playing full out with me, Damon, what did you like most about today? Yeah, I think one thing that. Really stood out was thinking about the impact, right.
[01:11:59] And the impact of not having the conversations or not really getting to the heart of it. You know, keeping that in mind you know, I’m a Moore and I live in a step-by-step person. So having that framework I think is really good and even digging into each one of those, there were little pieces that jumped out at me that I hadn’t thought of before, you know you know, like how are things disruptive?
[01:12:21] And yeah, what is the real issue, you know? And the mindset shifts too, of having these difficult conversations, turning them into opportunities.
[01:12:33] It’s an opportunity conversation. The only reason I use difficult conversations is because of call it an opportunity conversation, no one knows what the fuck is here. Right? But it is an energy shift that if your guys are willing to look at this and just like, look, here’s the, here’s the reality. Every employee out there wants to add more value to themselves first and the organization, if they are not getting the feedback because this is giving a perfect example of this.
[01:13:02] One of the guys I was coaching. And I said, what’s the conversation that you’ve been avoiding because one of my employees that puts together slides for our company has a problem with spelling. Okay. So what does it look like when you had a conversation about that? And he goes, well, I haven’t, I just fixed the spelling mistakes.
[01:13:22] I’m like, why would you avoid that? Like, that’s as simple, it’s not even that big of a deal, like Grammarly or gets something that will help you improve the way you spell. But you, as the CEO of this company, just fix it for them. What are you teaching them by that? And he’s like, not a damn thing. You guys see that, right?
[01:13:40]Yeah. Want to know where they can improve. They want to know where they can increase their own value. There were really selfish like that. Give them that chance. It is an opportunity. They may not even be aware of it. I can get out of my bed, not even be aware that it’s messed up. My wife loves it. I do it for her.
[01:14:01] It makes her happy. It makes me happy. I wasn’t aware of it until we had a conversation. I liked my bed, like the bed to be made. Perfect. All right. So. I do these every month. And I, I know there’s only two of you here and we got bouffant here on messenger. Who’s been very quiet today. He said he couldn’t respond, but which one of these six would be most interested in next month?
[01:14:27]Preparing for the great resignation. Okay. And my secondary would be attracting top talent. Now, actually, I’m going to switch my answers to AF and then he F and then E yep. Now this works and that’s
[01:14:48] Why, why is this important for you now? I’m just curious, trying to think of top talent. Yep. Because I’m not doing it. I get time. I’m whatever, whatever we are doing, they are doing wrong. How many employees do you have? 12 now? 13, 12, or 13. Here’s my offer to you? Cause I never know. What we’re going to do with this. If you want to switch out that conversation with me and have a conversation about attracting top talent, you’re welcome to do that. We won’t invite you to the next workshop because we try not to overload people and give them too much free stuff.
[01:15:27] But if you want to have a private conversation about what you’re doing, how to get that really aligned, right. I will tell you, I’m going to put it back on you. How are you showing up to attract the top talent? Whether it be your focus or whether the energy you’re bringing. So would you like to do that conversation with me, Christian?
[01:15:45] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn’t. All right. Damon, don’t let his answers impact you. What would you want to hear? The unshakeable confidence as I’m jumping into that commercial real estate stuff. That’s a little bit out of my comfort zone. So. Bolstering that a little bit, but then I’m, I’m also in agreement with the attracting top talent because for the, we know maybe we might have to build out a whole nother development team here.
[01:16:16]All right, well, I’ll leave you with this. You must become the greatest example of the behavior you seek. If you really want to have courageous employees, you’ve got to be courageous too, and have these difficult conversations. Don’t kick the can down the road and you know, it can cost you. You’ve got more framework.
[01:16:36] You get an understanding of this. I hope that you’ll be, take your level of leadership to the next level, just because you showed up today. I really appreciate it. Great. So we’re right at cue right at the time. Take care. Talk to you guys. Soon question. I’ll reach out to you.
Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.